Friday, May 27, 2005

How Frumteens Causes Family Problems

Here's a post on Frumteens which gives a taste of the frightening problems that Frumteens can cause:

I also disagree with the moderator in a lot of ways hashkafa-wise. But as a read what he says, it makes more and more sense, and instead of thinking "That's what those frumies think", I now think "That's how I should be thinking". I still don't completely agree with a lot of what he says, mainly because I come from a modern orthodox family, I am starting to see his way as right and my family's way as wrong.

It's great to try to inspire teenagers to a greater level of observance and to more noble hashkafos. But the emphasis on Frumteens is on how other hashkafos are wrong. That's not something to do with teens. It's a recipe for disasters with their families and their teaches.
Turning teens against their families and teachers is a very, very bad way to do kiruv.

39 Comments:

At 8:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

you have hit on the main point.How to increase ahavas hashem and ahavas habrios and not saying my
way is the only way and everyone else is wrong.

 
At 4:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't agree that a charedi haskafa is "more noble" -- just different (and totally legitimate, as is my "modern" haskafa). If someone wants to promote charedi lifestyles, I don't have a problem with that. But to turn kids against their parents? That is encouraging kids to ignore the mitzvah of k'vod av v'em. Isn't that ussur?

 
At 5:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But to turn kids against their parents? That is encouraging kids to ignore the mitzvah of k'vod av v'em. Isn't that ussur?

kibud av v'em doesn't apply when your parents are not allowing you to fulfil other mitzvot. So if you can be convinced that a hashkafah that you should be following is better than the one you've got, and therefore is preventing you from fulfilling a mitzvah properly, then kibud av v'em doesn't apply.

However, that isn't how a good kiruv person should mekarev someone. Good kiruv should look at the child as the first door to getting the whole family. So if you show them that their parents are okay too, but you should bring them along...so much the better.

 
At 9:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quite agreed. What also irritates me is that the man does not publish all posts. I wrote a harshly worded comment to him about the Slifkin books and his analysis of him, and he simply refused to show it on the site. I hate sites that are afraid. If you display all your comments, then obviously you are able to deal with all kinds of issues. If you don't even dare display them, how solid are your claims?

 
At 5:50 PM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Schaefer,
I found this blog by accident (like I find most Jewish Blogs) and as a result I had to see what all the fuss is about. I think I spent over 5 hours reading throught the site (FT.com). And as I posted in my Blog (yes I gave you credit on it) I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

The Anti- Israel/ Zionism part troubled me a lot, between calling me an Idol Worshipper, saying that Hamas is OK and Saying that the Holocaust was caused by the Zionist.. and it just keeps going and going..

I think what you are doing is Great and I am glad to see people who care.

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At 6:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My guess is that FrumTeensMod is from Aish Hatorah. Anyone familiar with that institution, for all its great work, it's graduates often know less than they think and can be dangerous in hashkafic discussions.

 
At 8:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stop concentrating on a site that bothers you and do something else

 
At 12:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I recently saw the following article in the readers' forum of a Jewish newspaper. I'll change a few words to make it more reader-friendly, but the content is the same:

"A Plea From an Orphan
I am writing this letter with tears in my eyes. I would very much appreciate it if you would print my letter in your next issue of the weekly.
My Daddy passed away a few months ago. I miss him terribly. I cry into my pillow many times at night, after everybody else has fallen asleep.
After shiva I thought Mashiach would without a doubt come. How could he not? I was so full of pain and sorrow, and seeing my mother so sad hurt even mnore. Hashem would surely have pity on us.
Then I heard of all the macklokes going on in the Jewish community and my heart hurt even more. I cried like I'venever cried before. How could Mashiach come if there is machlokes? I beg of you all. I want my Daddy back! Please learn two halachos of shemiras halashon a day. There are so many books available. Please do me and all the other orphans and almanos in Klal Yisrael a huge favor. Read shemiras halashon every day.
Thank you. May Mashiach come speedily."

Ok. I understand that some people may not want to take on the commitment that the writer of the article is suggesting, but at the very least, please listen to the heart of the article! How can we ignore the painful cries of orphans and continue to breed machlokes in our communities? Please, I beg you with all my heart, for the sake of my close friends and relatives who are going through very difficult times, for the sake of those facing the horrendous tragedies of terrorism in Israel, for the sake of the victims of the recent tragedies in our communities in the US, please think before you speak.
With love in my heart for all of you, my fellow Jews
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At 9:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=3&forum_title=Deep+Trouble

 
At 6:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i can see whats bothering you guys , but if you guys really have something to say that might discredit him , why dont you say it on the website , i mean until i get a solid disproof against his anti-israel remarks , your words mean nothing other then some emotional bs so until you discredit him on an intellectual ground , then keep your comments to yourselves.

 
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At 10:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

so you have nothing to report since may?
Get a move on here.

 
At 5:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

just something

 
At 8:00 PM, Blogger MushkaPushka said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I must admit, that Frumteens is a little extreme, but to his credit, he backs more or less everything he says with mekoros. Frumteenswatch cannot say that for themselves. Neither can Rabbi Adlerstein. If you disagree with him, then fight it out as a machloikes l'sheim shomayim and show how the mekros he brings should be understood differently. This is how Beis shammai and beis hillel did it, this is how pirkei ovos describes it. Stop trying to humiliate the Rabbi moderator. And whether or not he is a rabbi is really irrelevant, if you read his posts, he is clearly a shtikl talmid chochom. He performs an important service for klal yisroel and if he is wrong, take him on by learning the sources differently, not by insulting and defaming. Kol yisroel areivim zeh lazeh, if he is misguiding others, then you are duty-bound to save these teens, but the way to do it is through TOrah, not defamation. More often than not, only those who cannot debate, debase. Let's only have disagreements l'sheim shomayim. Chazak v'ematz!

 
At 9:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, are you saying that if a hashkafa IS wrong, the Moderator should not point this out?

It's not his fault if this girl's parents don't get it. His job is to tell the person asking the question what the answer is.

 
At 6:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As for the moderator of the Frumteens website, he is Satmar and has smicha from Lakewood.

Um, excuse me? He would never say that. So where, precisely, did you get that information? Please stop spreading lies.

 
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Frumteens is just plain awful. I went there when I was a younger teen and was totally turned away from the idea of being frum altogether because of how ridiculous the mod is. He imposes his OWN ideology on teens; it's practically a cult.

"Put down the Kool Aid."

 
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