Wednesday, May 18, 2005

FrumTeens: Ramban is Apikorsus!

Here's where the FrumTeens Moderator clarifies his definition of apikorsus, which elsewhere on his website is extraordinarily sweeping, but here is merely very sweeping:

Any pshat you say that you honestly and objectively, without any outside influences or negiyos, derived lishmah from the torah, is, at worst a mistake.
But an idea that you had preconceived, or that you decided based not on torah bu on science or psychology or sme other outside influence, or your own negiyus, or whatever, if that idea is contrary ot the torah, and you try to fit in your outside-the-torah pshat into the torah, you are in essence twisting the otrahs words, NOT deriving things form them; you are trying to make the torah agree with you, NOT you agreeing to the Torah. And so if yuor pshat is correct, youre OK. But if its against the torah, youre not a toeah but a megaleh panim batorah shelo kehalachah. And that is apikorsus.

Well, there goes the Ramban - see his Peirush on Vayikra Perek 12 Possuk 2, where he says that according to Greek philosophy, Chazal's explanation of a possuk is not correct (he notes that the Greek view is also supported by Onkelos, but it's clear that this is only being brought for supplementary support). Ramban might also have been caught out on apikorsus for what he says on Breishis 9 possuk 12, but the Greeks happened to be correct on that one. Lucky break for Ramban there!

Of course, we must ask, what does "contrary to the torah" and "against the torah" mean? According to who? Frumteens doesn't say. Based on his other posts, the answer is probably either the Satmar Rav or the FrumTeens moderator.

38 Comments:

At 3:31 PM, Blogger Gil Student said...

Not to mention the Rambam and Rav Saadia Gaon!!!

 
At 10:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget R' Kook is also an apikores according to him, and now R' Slifkin is the newest to join the elite club...

 
At 11:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And of course Rav Yaakov Kamentesky must have issues too. He learned that the Rambam's understanding about planets (that their just spiritual beings with no form) was wrong and the Ramban correct, upon seeing man land on a physical moon. Imagine that! Reality having some bearing on a machlokes rishonim. Mahmish Apikorsus!!! And I always thought Rav Yakov was a godol. So did Artscroll. Thanks Frumteen guy. You set me straight on that one!!

 
At 6:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

With repsect to the coments of anonymous said, I am assuming that all your comments discrediting Rav Yakov are written "tongue in cheek"? If so, you must state your comments very carefully for the benefit of the less discerning among us. As a parent in the throes of the "frumteens" phenomenon I can attest to the potential damage he can perpetrate. To even remark that "Mr. Frumteen" has the remote capacity to "set anyone straight" gives him far too much credit.

 
At 7:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

im just wondering what you poeple say about the chazon ish behind his back , he wasnt to fond if zionists either.

 
At 9:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's besides the point. Just because a person is not a zionist does not make them evil. The frumteens moderator has many negative traits, anti-zionism just being one of them, and that is not the one I usually focus on. I focus on his hatred and discrediting of many tenents and members of the Jewish faith.

 
At 11:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I used to think that maybe there were arguments that were actually legitimate that could be argued against what the Moderator on frumteens.com said...but after reading all the "anti-frumteens" websites, besides getting a good laugh, I realized that there are no real arguments, only emotions and hate against frumteens.

The truth hurts, but it must be learned one way or another. Kol Hakavod to the Moderator for expressing it (and quoting all legitimate authorites when there is a disagreement) and shame on all those who spew hate on this great man, and who can not even come up with a reasonable argument against what he writes and quotes from gedolim.

Frumteens Moderator keep up the great work of helping literally thousands of teens (and adults)! And everyone else, instead of bashing and thinking with emotions, should learn to do the same. And just a bit of advice-before critiquing the MOD, try to come up with at least a half-logical argument, expecially one that already has not been refuted on frumteens. Maybe then all the teens and balei teshuva who actually want the truth, not emotions or fitting a square peg into a round hole, will actually take you a bit more seriously.

Hatzlacha in all your endeavors and through our chesed and motzvos and Torah and using the internet to perform great mitzvas such as frumteens.com may we merit the coming of Mashiach speedily in our days...Mamish!

 
At 1:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am shocked at the comments made here.The people who have denigrated frumteens should really consider their opinions with torah authorities before writing their ideas.The Frumteens site is definately helpful to thousands of people all over the world in finding out halacha machshava etc. When i dicovered the zionism part about frumteens i was suprised and believed frumteens can be refuted by other rabbonim.But as i looked into it more the statements he said were totally true because it was based on torah and torah only not on somones random outlook.I clarified this because i have looked up the sources he qoutes and i found them to be true.No where on the site does he denigrate any talmidei chachamim not according to halacha.He presents his opinion and explains why he does not hold of theirs.

It is a shock how you can believe frumteens would say anything deragatory about the people mentioned above Ramban,Rambam,R'Yakov Kamenetsky...The Moderator believes in all of them and even qoutes them all the time.Just because you found something that might seem problematic according to frumteens doesnt mean he is wrong.Look at the site thousands have people asked him questions and he gave answers.So ask him youre question about the Ramban. he will answer you with daas torah.But please be respectful and ask him dont just assume you know everything because trust me the moderators know more.You have the ability to even post! on the website youre opinion so do that instead of denigrating them.

 
At 11:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous:"Look at the site thousands have people asked him questions and he gave answers", and many others tried asking but their questions were never posted.

anonymous:"You have the ability to even post!", oh really?!?!

As you can see forums allow anyone to post their questions, even you were allowed to post on this site! Many times I have tried to ask innocent questions on stories that were being posted on frumteens none of my questions were posted. I tried posting stories of gedlim, from reliable sources, that seemd to contradict his views, these weren't either posted.The mod on frumteens has an agenda, he isn't looking for open minded discussions. His opinions are biased and anyone trying to reveal another outlook isn't logically disproven, they are just ignored.

 
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